As far as Judaism goes, the explanations for why prophecy ended (or radically toned down) aren't satisfying. My assessment of the OT is that prophecy (as a concept) has not ended (and will even spread to all Jews someday in Joel 2:28-29: "I will pour out My Spirit on all people.Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Even on My menservants and maidservants, I will pour out My Spirit in those days"). All I see in the OT is stuff like that.
And for me, early Christians were Jews and they applied Joel 2 to themselves and Paul goes on and on about how cool then-current prophets were.
But as I was discussing this issue with a Christian acquaintance, he mentioned someone named John MacArthur who argues that prophecy has ended, so I checked him out and found his explanations unsatisfying. After reading his argument and those of his critics and his responses to them, it looks like he hangs his hat on 1 Cor. 13:8-10:
So it's all about the meaning of "when the perfect comes," and to me it is clear that this is when Jesus comes to Earth in the form of Daniel's "son of man" figure at the End Time and everyone is resurrected or transformed into angel-like spiritual beings, not when the NT and apostolic age was finished.
Is there no knowledge anymore too? Because Paul says that too will pass away "when the perfect comes." Does no one know anything anymore? It just doesn't work for me on any level. So apparently I am a non-believing "continuationist" rather than a "cessationist." But even early Church writers support "continuationism":
And for me, early Christians were Jews and they applied Joel 2 to themselves and Paul goes on and on about how cool then-current prophets were.
But as I was discussing this issue with a Christian acquaintance, he mentioned someone named John MacArthur who argues that prophecy has ended, so I checked him out and found his explanations unsatisfying. After reading his argument and those of his critics and his responses to them, it looks like he hangs his hat on 1 Cor. 13:8-10:
But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be restrained; where there is knowledge, it will be dismissed. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial passes away.
So it's all about the meaning of "when the perfect comes," and to me it is clear that this is when Jesus comes to Earth in the form of Daniel's "son of man" figure at the End Time and everyone is resurrected or transformed into angel-like spiritual beings, not when the NT and apostolic age was finished.
Is there no knowledge anymore too? Because Paul says that too will pass away "when the perfect comes." Does no one know anything anymore? It just doesn't work for me on any level. So apparently I am a non-believing "continuationist" rather than a "cessationist." But even early Church writers support "continuationism":
Justin Martyr (d.165) in his Dialogue with Trypho comments, "For the prophetical gifts remain with us, even to the present time."
Irenaeus (d.202) was a pupil of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John. He wrote in his book Against Heresies, Book V, vi.: "In like manner do we also hear many brethren in the church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through the Spirit speak all kinds of languages, and bring to light, for the general benefit, the hidden things of men and declare the mysteries of God, who also the apostles term spiritual".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessation ... hereafter).
Statistics: Posted by John2 — Sat May 25, 2024 2:51 pm