Tertullian is just speculating.
Another case, the miracle of loaves and fishes. In Mark the miracle of loaves and fishes is very well thought out and is clearly based on the miracle of Elisha. In *Ev and Luke there is only one feeding and it doesn't have the symbolism that it does in Mark.
*Ev
Luke:
Mark:
Firstly, Elisha:
Quite clear that the feeding scenes in Mark are based on this scene from 2 Kings.
Not only that, but the twelve baskets represent the Jews with the seven representing the Romans, or gentiles (either the Seven Hills of Rome or the the Seven Gentile nations that occupied the Promised Land during the time of Moses). This is also reflected in the scene that is between the first and second feeding, with the children representing the Jews and the dogs the Gentiles.
So again, is it really believable that Marcion or someone wrote a story that included this feeding miracle, but it originally had no connection to the story of Elijah and Elisha? And then Mark was able to take this scene and transform it into this strong parallel with the story of Elijah and Elisha? In Mark from Mark 1 through Mark 8, from the baptism to the transfiguration, the narrative follows the story of Elijah and Elisha. This scene fits into that Elijah/Elisha context.
Explaining how the scene was copied from Mark and lost some of its original symbolism is much easier than how Mark would have been able to take this scene and impart so much new symbolism to it. Its based on Elijah and Elisha, it fits into an overall context in Mark in which it is part of a longer narrative modeled on the story of Elijah and Elisha. Its one element of a more extended narrative about serving the Jews first and then the Gentiles. The scene exists in *Ev but doesn't have this meaning.
And again, this isn't an isolated issue. *Ev first requires that Mark was able to re-write dozens of scenes in *Ev and develop an entire framework around these scenes that fundamentally restructured *Ev while keeping it recognizable and developing dozens of literary allusions for scenes that were not originally based on literary allusions.
It's just vastly more probable that Mark came first and *Ev and other Gospels merely copied from Mark and broke up some of the allusions in his writings and failed to recognize some of his original symbolism than that *Ev came first and Mark was able to entirely re-write it in a way that added all of this symbolism while not chaning it that much.
Another case, the miracle of loaves and fishes. In Mark the miracle of loaves and fishes is very well thought out and is clearly based on the miracle of Elisha. In *Ev and Luke there is only one feeding and it doesn't have the symbolism that it does in Mark.
*Ev
10[. . . a deserted place. 11. . . crowds . . . 12. . .] And,
having approached, the Twelve said to him: “Dismiss the
crowd, so that when they go into the surrounding villages
and fields, they might disperse and find provisions, because
here we are in a deserted place.” 13But he said to
them: “Give them (something) to eat yourselves.” And
they said: “We have no more than five loaves and two
fish. . . .” 14For they were about five thousand men. . . .
16Then, when he had taken the five loaves and the two
fish, as he looked up into the sky, he said a blessing on
them, and he broke off and was giving (pieces) to the pupils
to serve to the crowd. 17So they ate and all were satisfied,
and the surplus was carried off by them. . . .
having approached, the Twelve said to him: “Dismiss the
crowd, so that when they go into the surrounding villages
and fields, they might disperse and find provisions, because
here we are in a deserted place.” 13But he said to
them: “Give them (something) to eat yourselves.” And
they said: “We have no more than five loaves and two
fish. . . .” 14For they were about five thousand men. . . .
16Then, when he had taken the five loaves and the two
fish, as he looked up into the sky, he said a blessing on
them, and he broke off and was giving (pieces) to the pupils
to serve to the crowd. 17So they ate and all were satisfied,
and the surplus was carried off by them. . . .
Luke:
12 Now the day was ending, and the twelve came and said to Him, “Send the crowd away, that they may go into the surrounding villages and countryside and find lodging and get something to eat; for here we are in a desolate place.” 13 But He said to them, “You give them something to eat!” And they said, “We have no more than five loaves and two fish, unless perhaps we go and buy food for all these people.” 14 (For there were about five thousand men.) And He said to His disciples, “Have them sit down to eat in groups of about fifty each.” 15 They did so, and had them all sit down. 16 Then He took the five loaves and the two fish, and looking up to heaven, He blessed them, and broke them, and kept giving them to the disciples to set before the people. 17 And they all ate and were satisfied; and the broken pieces which they had left over were picked up, twelve baskets full.
Mark:
33 The people saw them going, and many recognized them and ran there together on foot from all the cities, and got there ahead of them. 34 When Jesus went ashore, He saw a large crowd, and He felt compassion for them because they were like sheep without a shepherd; and He began to teach them many things. 35 When it was already quite late, His disciples came to Him and said, “This place is desolate and it is already quite late; 36 send them away so that they may go into the surrounding countryside and villages and buy themselves something to eat.” 37 But He answered them, “You give them something to eat!” And they *said to Him, “Shall we go and spend two hundred denarii on bread and give them something to eat?” 38 And He *said to them, “How many loaves do you have? Go look!” And when they found out, they *said, “Five, and two fish.” 39 And He commanded them all to sit down by groups on the green grass. 40 They sat down in groups of hundreds and of fifties. 41 And He took the five loaves and the two fish, and looking up toward heaven, He blessed the food and broke the loaves and He kept giving them to the disciples to set before them; and He divided up the two fish among them all. 42 They all ate and were satisfied, 43 and they picked up twelve full baskets of the broken pieces, and also of the fish. 44 There were five thousand men who ate the loaves.
...
24 Jesus got up and went away from there to the region of Tyre. And when He had entered a house, He wanted no one to know of it; yet He could not escape notice. 25 But after hearing of Him, a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately came and fell at His feet. 26 Now the woman was a Gentile, of the Syrophoenician race. And she kept asking Him to cast the demon out of her daughter. 27 And He was saying to her, “Let the children be satisfied first, for it is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” 28 But she answered and *said to Him, “Yes, Lord, but even the dogs under the table feed on the children’s crumbs.” 29 And He said to her, “Because of this answer go; the demon has gone out of your daughter.” 30 And going back to her home, she found the child lying on the bed, the demon having left.
...
8 In those days, when there was again a large crowd and they had nothing to eat, Jesus called His disciples and *said to them, 2 “I feel compassion for the people because they have remained with Me now three days and have nothing to eat. 3 If I send them away hungry to their homes, they will faint on the way; and some of them have come from a great distance.” 4 And His disciples answered Him, “Where will anyone be able to find enough bread here in this desolate place to satisfy these people?” 5 And He was asking them, “How many loaves do you have?” And they said, “Seven.” 6 And He *directed the people to sit down on the ground; and taking the seven loaves, He gave thanks and broke them, and started giving them to His disciples to serve to them, and they served them to the people. 7 They also had a few small fish; and after He had blessed them, He ordered these to be served as well. 8 And they ate and were satisfied; and they picked up seven large baskets full of what was left over of the broken pieces. 9 About four thousand were there; and He sent them away. 10 And immediately He entered the boat with His disciples and came to the district of Dalmanutha.
...
14 And they had forgotten to take bread, and did not have more than one loaf in the boat with them. 15 And He was giving orders to them, saying, “Watch out! Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod.” 16 They began to discuss with one another the fact that they had no bread. 17 And Jesus, aware of this, *said to them, “Why do you discuss the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet see or understand? Do you have a hardened heart? 18 Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear? And do you not remember, 19 when I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many baskets full of broken pieces you picked up?” They *said to Him, “Twelve.” 20 “When I broke the seven for the four thousand, how many large baskets full of broken pieces did you pick up?” And they *said to Him, “Seven.” 21 And He was saying to them, “Do you not yet understand?”
...
24 Jesus got up and went away from there to the region of Tyre. And when He had entered a house, He wanted no one to know of it; yet He could not escape notice. 25 But after hearing of Him, a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately came and fell at His feet. 26 Now the woman was a Gentile, of the Syrophoenician race. And she kept asking Him to cast the demon out of her daughter. 27 And He was saying to her, “Let the children be satisfied first, for it is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” 28 But she answered and *said to Him, “Yes, Lord, but even the dogs under the table feed on the children’s crumbs.” 29 And He said to her, “Because of this answer go; the demon has gone out of your daughter.” 30 And going back to her home, she found the child lying on the bed, the demon having left.
...
8 In those days, when there was again a large crowd and they had nothing to eat, Jesus called His disciples and *said to them, 2 “I feel compassion for the people because they have remained with Me now three days and have nothing to eat. 3 If I send them away hungry to their homes, they will faint on the way; and some of them have come from a great distance.” 4 And His disciples answered Him, “Where will anyone be able to find enough bread here in this desolate place to satisfy these people?” 5 And He was asking them, “How many loaves do you have?” And they said, “Seven.” 6 And He *directed the people to sit down on the ground; and taking the seven loaves, He gave thanks and broke them, and started giving them to His disciples to serve to them, and they served them to the people. 7 They also had a few small fish; and after He had blessed them, He ordered these to be served as well. 8 And they ate and were satisfied; and they picked up seven large baskets full of what was left over of the broken pieces. 9 About four thousand were there; and He sent them away. 10 And immediately He entered the boat with His disciples and came to the district of Dalmanutha.
...
14 And they had forgotten to take bread, and did not have more than one loaf in the boat with them. 15 And He was giving orders to them, saying, “Watch out! Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod.” 16 They began to discuss with one another the fact that they had no bread. 17 And Jesus, aware of this, *said to them, “Why do you discuss the fact that you have no bread? Do you not yet see or understand? Do you have a hardened heart? 18 Having eyes, do you not see? And having ears, do you not hear? And do you not remember, 19 when I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many baskets full of broken pieces you picked up?” They *said to Him, “Twelve.” 20 “When I broke the seven for the four thousand, how many large baskets full of broken pieces did you pick up?” And they *said to Him, “Seven.” 21 And He was saying to them, “Do you not yet understand?”
Firstly, Elisha:
2 Kings 4:
42 A man came from Baal-shalishah, bringing food from the first fruits to the man of God: twenty loaves of barley and fresh ears of grain in his sack. Elisha said, ‘Give it to the people and let them eat.’ 43 But his servant said, ‘How can I set this before a hundred people?’ So he repeated, ‘Give it to the people and let them eat, for thus says the Lord, “They shall eat and have some left.” ‘ 44 He set it before them, they ate, and had some left, according to the word of the Lord.
42 A man came from Baal-shalishah, bringing food from the first fruits to the man of God: twenty loaves of barley and fresh ears of grain in his sack. Elisha said, ‘Give it to the people and let them eat.’ 43 But his servant said, ‘How can I set this before a hundred people?’ So he repeated, ‘Give it to the people and let them eat, for thus says the Lord, “They shall eat and have some left.” ‘ 44 He set it before them, they ate, and had some left, according to the word of the Lord.
Quite clear that the feeding scenes in Mark are based on this scene from 2 Kings.
Not only that, but the twelve baskets represent the Jews with the seven representing the Romans, or gentiles (either the Seven Hills of Rome or the the Seven Gentile nations that occupied the Promised Land during the time of Moses). This is also reflected in the scene that is between the first and second feeding, with the children representing the Jews and the dogs the Gentiles.
So again, is it really believable that Marcion or someone wrote a story that included this feeding miracle, but it originally had no connection to the story of Elijah and Elisha? And then Mark was able to take this scene and transform it into this strong parallel with the story of Elijah and Elisha? In Mark from Mark 1 through Mark 8, from the baptism to the transfiguration, the narrative follows the story of Elijah and Elisha. This scene fits into that Elijah/Elisha context.
Explaining how the scene was copied from Mark and lost some of its original symbolism is much easier than how Mark would have been able to take this scene and impart so much new symbolism to it. Its based on Elijah and Elisha, it fits into an overall context in Mark in which it is part of a longer narrative modeled on the story of Elijah and Elisha. Its one element of a more extended narrative about serving the Jews first and then the Gentiles. The scene exists in *Ev but doesn't have this meaning.
And again, this isn't an isolated issue. *Ev first requires that Mark was able to re-write dozens of scenes in *Ev and develop an entire framework around these scenes that fundamentally restructured *Ev while keeping it recognizable and developing dozens of literary allusions for scenes that were not originally based on literary allusions.
It's just vastly more probable that Mark came first and *Ev and other Gospels merely copied from Mark and broke up some of the allusions in his writings and failed to recognize some of his original symbolism than that *Ev came first and Mark was able to entirely re-write it in a way that added all of this symbolism while not chaning it that much.
Statistics: Posted by rgprice — Fri May 17, 2024 12:54 pm