https://gemini.google.com/app
On my first try of this major tool, I gave GEMINI (Bard) several ancient Greek lines from Philo Judaeus, On the Posterity of Cain and His Exile, §155
Me: "what is the translation of this Philonic passage? De Posteritate Caini, §155: ὃν δὲ τρόπον μετέβαλε, σημανοῦμεν· ὅτε ἡμᾶς ἐκ τῆς Αἰγύπτου, τῶν κατὰ τὸ σῶμα παθῶν, ἐξήγαγε"
I was surprised how comprehensive the AI response was! Whether or not we agree with the AI-bot's conclusions -- and I see some errors -- this is vastly more information (context added!) than the simple phrase translation which ChatGPT3.5 provided when asked.
GEMINI:
Me: "Let's try that again. Translate the full passage, with attention to 'passions of the body.""
GEMINI went and found the Greek version (Wendland), and translated the entire passage §155.
Me, Third Try: "Here are the Philonic passages to translate and compare. What does #154 add to our understanding of the 'bodily passions' in #155? 154: τοὺς μὲν οὖν τοιούτους ..."
GEMINI:
I include two well-known, published standard translations for comparison.
Yonge [1854] offered:
Colson [1929]:
On my first try of this major tool, I gave GEMINI (Bard) several ancient Greek lines from Philo Judaeus, On the Posterity of Cain and His Exile, §155
Me: "what is the translation of this Philonic passage? De Posteritate Caini, §155: ὃν δὲ τρόπον μετέβαλε, σημανοῦμεν· ὅτε ἡμᾶς ἐκ τῆς Αἰγύπτου, τῶν κατὰ τὸ σῶμα παθῶν, ἐξήγαγε"
I was surprised how comprehensive the AI response was! Whether or not we agree with the AI-bot's conclusions -- and I see some errors -- this is vastly more information (context added!) than the simple phrase translation which ChatGPT3.5 provided when asked.
GEMINI:
Sure, here is the translation of the Philonic passage De Posteritate Caini, §155:
"We will show how he changed. When he brought us out of Egypt, of the passions of the body, ..."
The passage is from Philo's treatise On the Posterity of Cain, which is an allegorical interpretation of the biblical story of Cain and Abel. In this passage, Philo is discussing the change that takes place in the soul when it is freed from the passions of the body. He compares this change to the Israelites' exodus from Egypt, which he sees as a type of the soul's liberation from the bondage of sin.
The passage begins with Philo asking the question, "How did he change?" This question refers to the change that takes place in the soul when it is freed from the passions of the body. Philo answers this question by saying that the soul changes when it is brought out of Egypt. Egypt is a symbol of the passions of the body, and the exodus from Egypt is a symbol of the soul's liberation from these passions.
Philo then goes on to say that the soul's liberation from the passions of the body is a process that takes place in stages. The first stage is the soul's recognition of its own sinfulness. This recognition is followed by a period of repentance, in which the soul turns away from sin and seeks forgiveness from God. The final stage is the soul's transformation, in which it is made new and holy by the grace of God.
The passage concludes with Philo saying that the soul's liberation from the passions of the body is a process that is both difficult and necessary. It is difficult because it requires the soul to face its own sinfulness and to turn away from it. However, it is also necessary because it is the only way for the soul to achieve true freedom and happiness.
Here is a more detailed breakdown of the passage:
ὃν δὲ τρόπον μετέβαλε, σημανοῦμεν
"We will show how he changed."
This is the main clause of the sentence. It introduces the topic of the passage, which is the change that takes place in the soul when it is freed from the passions of the body.
ὅτε ἡμᾶς ἐκ τῆς Αἰγύπτου, τῶν κατὰ τὸ σῶμα παθῶν, ἐξήγαγε
"When he brought us out of Egypt, of the passions of the body, ..."
This is a subordinate clause that provides more information about the main clause. It explains that the change that takes place in the soul is a result of being brought out of Egypt. Egypt is a symbol of the passions of the body, and the exodus from Egypt is a symbol of the soul's liberation from these passions.
The passage is significant because it provides a detailed explanation of the process of the soul's liberation from the passions of the body. It also emphasizes the importance of this process for the soul's achievement of true freedom and happiness.
"We will show how he changed. When he brought us out of Egypt, of the passions of the body, ..."
The passage is from Philo's treatise On the Posterity of Cain, which is an allegorical interpretation of the biblical story of Cain and Abel. In this passage, Philo is discussing the change that takes place in the soul when it is freed from the passions of the body. He compares this change to the Israelites' exodus from Egypt, which he sees as a type of the soul's liberation from the bondage of sin.
The passage begins with Philo asking the question, "How did he change?" This question refers to the change that takes place in the soul when it is freed from the passions of the body. Philo answers this question by saying that the soul changes when it is brought out of Egypt. Egypt is a symbol of the passions of the body, and the exodus from Egypt is a symbol of the soul's liberation from these passions.
Philo then goes on to say that the soul's liberation from the passions of the body is a process that takes place in stages. The first stage is the soul's recognition of its own sinfulness. This recognition is followed by a period of repentance, in which the soul turns away from sin and seeks forgiveness from God. The final stage is the soul's transformation, in which it is made new and holy by the grace of God.
The passage concludes with Philo saying that the soul's liberation from the passions of the body is a process that is both difficult and necessary. It is difficult because it requires the soul to face its own sinfulness and to turn away from it. However, it is also necessary because it is the only way for the soul to achieve true freedom and happiness.
Here is a more detailed breakdown of the passage:
ὃν δὲ τρόπον μετέβαλε, σημανοῦμεν
"We will show how he changed."
This is the main clause of the sentence. It introduces the topic of the passage, which is the change that takes place in the soul when it is freed from the passions of the body.
ὅτε ἡμᾶς ἐκ τῆς Αἰγύπτου, τῶν κατὰ τὸ σῶμα παθῶν, ἐξήγαγε
"When he brought us out of Egypt, of the passions of the body, ..."
This is a subordinate clause that provides more information about the main clause. It explains that the change that takes place in the soul is a result of being brought out of Egypt. Egypt is a symbol of the passions of the body, and the exodus from Egypt is a symbol of the soul's liberation from these passions.
The passage is significant because it provides a detailed explanation of the process of the soul's liberation from the passions of the body. It also emphasizes the importance of this process for the soul's achievement of true freedom and happiness.
Me: "Let's try that again. Translate the full passage, with attention to 'passions of the body.""
GEMINI went and found the Greek version (Wendland), and translated the entire passage §155.
GEMINI:
Here's the full translation of the passage from De Posteritate Caini, §155, focusing on "passions of the body":
"We will show how he changed. When he brought us out of Egypt, of the passions of the body, we then began to travel the waterless path of pleasure, and encamped at Marah, a place with no drinkable water, but entirely bitter (Exodus 15:23). For the delights experienced through eyes, ears, stomach, and what comes after the stomach were still firmly implanted and strongly urged us on, whispering enticements. So, whenever we truly wanted to separate ourselves from them, they would pull us back, clinging to us and flatteringly cajoling us, so that yielding to their constant, taming influence, we became estranged from hardship as something entirely bitter and difficult. We even considered running back to Egypt, the racetrack of a dissolute and unrestrained life, unless the savior, taking pity sooner, cast sweetness into our souls like delightful wood (cf. Exodus 15:25), working love of labor in place of hatred for it. For he knew, as the creator, that none of the things that exist can be mastered unless a strong desire is added to it. Whatever humans pursue without a sense of belonging to it will not achieve the fitting end, but with the addition of friendship and a fusing with the desired object, it is brought to the greatest completion."
Here's a breakdown focusing on "passions of the body":
τῶν κατὰ τὸ σῶμα παθῶν (ton kata to soma pathon): This phrase literally translates to "of the passions according to the body." "Passions" here refer to strong emotions and desires, and "according to the body" indicates these desires are rooted in physical needs and pleasures.
ἡδονῆς ἀτραπὸν ὁδεύοντες (hedonēs atrapòn hodeuontes): This translates to "traveling the waterless path of pleasure." This metaphorical path represents pursuing fleeting physical gratification, which is ultimately unsatisfying.
δι' ὀφθαλμῶν καὶ ὤτων γαστρός τε αὖ καὶ τῶν μετὰ γαστέρα τέρψεις (dia ophthalmōn kai ōtōn gastros te au kai tōn meta gastera terpseis): This translates to "the delights experienced through eyes, ears, stomach, and what comes after the stomach." This explicitly lists bodily senses and their associated pleasures as the "passions of the body."
ἀσελγοῦς καὶ ἀκολάστου βίου ὑπόδρομον (aselgous kai akolastou biou hypodromon): This translates to "the racetrack of a dissolute and unrestrained life." This emphasizes the cyclical and ultimately pointless nature of indulging in bodily desires.
By translating with an awareness of "passions of the body," we see Philo portraying the Israelites' journey as an allegory for the soul's struggle against its physical desires.
Here's the full translation of the passage from De Posteritate Caini, §155, focusing on "passions of the body":
"We will show how he changed. When he brought us out of Egypt, of the passions of the body, we then began to travel the waterless path of pleasure, and encamped at Marah, a place with no drinkable water, but entirely bitter (Exodus 15:23). For the delights experienced through eyes, ears, stomach, and what comes after the stomach were still firmly implanted and strongly urged us on, whispering enticements. So, whenever we truly wanted to separate ourselves from them, they would pull us back, clinging to us and flatteringly cajoling us, so that yielding to their constant, taming influence, we became estranged from hardship as something entirely bitter and difficult. We even considered running back to Egypt, the racetrack of a dissolute and unrestrained life, unless the savior, taking pity sooner, cast sweetness into our souls like delightful wood (cf. Exodus 15:25), working love of labor in place of hatred for it. For he knew, as the creator, that none of the things that exist can be mastered unless a strong desire is added to it. Whatever humans pursue without a sense of belonging to it will not achieve the fitting end, but with the addition of friendship and a fusing with the desired object, it is brought to the greatest completion."
Here's a breakdown focusing on "passions of the body":
τῶν κατὰ τὸ σῶμα παθῶν (ton kata to soma pathon): This phrase literally translates to "of the passions according to the body." "Passions" here refer to strong emotions and desires, and "according to the body" indicates these desires are rooted in physical needs and pleasures.
ἡδονῆς ἀτραπὸν ὁδεύοντες (hedonēs atrapòn hodeuontes): This translates to "traveling the waterless path of pleasure." This metaphorical path represents pursuing fleeting physical gratification, which is ultimately unsatisfying.
δι' ὀφθαλμῶν καὶ ὤτων γαστρός τε αὖ καὶ τῶν μετὰ γαστέρα τέρψεις (dia ophthalmōn kai ōtōn gastros te au kai tōn meta gastera terpseis): This translates to "the delights experienced through eyes, ears, stomach, and what comes after the stomach." This explicitly lists bodily senses and their associated pleasures as the "passions of the body."
ἀσελγοῦς καὶ ἀκολάστου βίου ὑπόδρομον (aselgous kai akolastou biou hypodromon): This translates to "the racetrack of a dissolute and unrestrained life." This emphasizes the cyclical and ultimately pointless nature of indulging in bodily desires.
By translating with an awareness of "passions of the body," we see Philo portraying the Israelites' journey as an allegory for the soul's struggle against its physical desires.
Me, Third Try: "Here are the Philonic passages to translate and compare. What does #154 add to our understanding of the 'bodily passions' in #155? 154: τοὺς μὲν οὖν τοιούτους ..."
GEMINI:
Sure, here's a translation of the two passages from De Posteritate Caini:
§154:
"We must accept those who are naturally fortunate. But there are some ascetics who find the path to virtue to be rough, difficult, and arduous at first. But God, the benefactor of all, has made it smooth again, changing the bitterness of toil into sweetness."
§155:
"We will show how he changed. When he brought us out of Egypt, of the passions of the body, we traveled the waterless path of pleasure, and encamped at Marah, a place with no drinkable water, but entirely bitter (Exodus 15:23). For the delights experienced through eyes, ears, stomach, and what comes after the stomach were still firmly implanted and strongly urged us on, whispering enticements. So, whenever we truly wanted to separate ourselves from them, they would pull us back, clinging to us and flatteringly cajoling us, so that yielding to their constant, taming influence, we became estranged from hardship as something entirely bitter and difficult. We even considered running back to Egypt, the racetrack of a dissolute and unrestrained life, unless the savior, taking pity sooner, cast sweetness into our souls like delightful wood (cf. Exodus 15:25), working love of labor in place of hatred for it. For he knew, as the creator, that none of the things that exist can be mastered unless a strong desire is added to it. Whatever humans pursue without a sense of belonging to it will not achieve the fitting end, but with the addition of friendship and a fusing with the desired object, it is brought to the greatest completion."
Comparison:
Both passages discuss the nature of the "passions of the body" and the challenges of overcoming them.
§154 focuses on the initial difficulty of the path to virtue, which is described as "rough, difficult, and arduous." However, God's grace can make this path easier by transforming the "bitterness of toil into sweetness."
§155 provides a more detailed description of the "passions of the body." These passions are associated with the senses (sight, hearing, taste) and physical urges. They are described as being "firmly implanted" and "strongly urging" the soul to indulge in them. The passage also emphasizes the difficulty of resisting these passions, as they are constantly pulling the soul back to a life of indulgence.
What does §154 add to our understanding of the 'bodily passions' in §155?
§154 adds to our understanding of the "bodily passions" in §155 in several ways:
It highlights the role of God's grace in overcoming these passions. While §155 emphasizes the difficulty of resisting the passions, §154 suggests that God's grace can make this task easier.
It provides a broader perspective on the path to virtue. While §155 focuses on the challenges of overcoming the passions, §154 reminds us that the path to virtue is ultimately a journey of transformation and growth.
It suggests that the "bodily passions" are not insurmountable. While §155 emphasizes the power of the passions, §154 reminds us that with God's help, they can be overcome.
Overall, the two passages provide a complementary view of the "bodily passions" and the challenges of overcoming them. §155 emphasizes the difficulty of this task, while §154 highlights the role of God's grace and the ultimate possibility of transformation.
§154:
"We must accept those who are naturally fortunate. But there are some ascetics who find the path to virtue to be rough, difficult, and arduous at first. But God, the benefactor of all, has made it smooth again, changing the bitterness of toil into sweetness."
§155:
"We will show how he changed. When he brought us out of Egypt, of the passions of the body, we traveled the waterless path of pleasure, and encamped at Marah, a place with no drinkable water, but entirely bitter (Exodus 15:23). For the delights experienced through eyes, ears, stomach, and what comes after the stomach were still firmly implanted and strongly urged us on, whispering enticements. So, whenever we truly wanted to separate ourselves from them, they would pull us back, clinging to us and flatteringly cajoling us, so that yielding to their constant, taming influence, we became estranged from hardship as something entirely bitter and difficult. We even considered running back to Egypt, the racetrack of a dissolute and unrestrained life, unless the savior, taking pity sooner, cast sweetness into our souls like delightful wood (cf. Exodus 15:25), working love of labor in place of hatred for it. For he knew, as the creator, that none of the things that exist can be mastered unless a strong desire is added to it. Whatever humans pursue without a sense of belonging to it will not achieve the fitting end, but with the addition of friendship and a fusing with the desired object, it is brought to the greatest completion."
Comparison:
Both passages discuss the nature of the "passions of the body" and the challenges of overcoming them.
§154 focuses on the initial difficulty of the path to virtue, which is described as "rough, difficult, and arduous." However, God's grace can make this path easier by transforming the "bitterness of toil into sweetness."
§155 provides a more detailed description of the "passions of the body." These passions are associated with the senses (sight, hearing, taste) and physical urges. They are described as being "firmly implanted" and "strongly urging" the soul to indulge in them. The passage also emphasizes the difficulty of resisting these passions, as they are constantly pulling the soul back to a life of indulgence.
What does §154 add to our understanding of the 'bodily passions' in §155?
§154 adds to our understanding of the "bodily passions" in §155 in several ways:
It highlights the role of God's grace in overcoming these passions. While §155 emphasizes the difficulty of resisting the passions, §154 suggests that God's grace can make this task easier.
It provides a broader perspective on the path to virtue. While §155 focuses on the challenges of overcoming the passions, §154 reminds us that the path to virtue is ultimately a journey of transformation and growth.
It suggests that the "bodily passions" are not insurmountable. While §155 emphasizes the power of the passions, §154 reminds us that with God's help, they can be overcome.
Overall, the two passages provide a complementary view of the "bodily passions" and the challenges of overcoming them. §155 emphasizes the difficulty of this task, while §154 highlights the role of God's grace and the ultimate possibility of transformation.
I include two well-known, published standard translations for comparison.
Yonge [1854] offered:
(154) and such persons as these one ought to admit because of the goodness of their natural disposition. But there are some men among those who practise virtue to whom the all-beneficent God has shown the way that leads to virtue, such that at first it is accounted rough, and steep, and difficult, but subsequently level and easy, having changed the bitterness of the wayfarer's labour to sweetness. And how he has wrought this change we will now tell. (155) When he led us forth out of Egypt, that is to say, out of the passions which excite the body, we, travelling in the desert, that is to say, in the path of pleasure, encamped in the place called Marah, a place which had no drinkable water, but where all the water was Bitter.{66}{#ex 15:23.} For still the pleasures which are brought into action by means of the eyes, and ears, and belly, and the parts adjacent to the belly, were tempting to us, and charmed us exceedingly, sounding close to us.
Colson [1929]:
Such men we must cordially approve for the excellent nature which has fallen to their lot. But there are some men of diligence and effort, who at first think the way leading to virtue rough and steep and difficult, but for whom later on the all-bountiful God renders it a highway, transforming the bitterness of their toil into sweetness. In what manner He transformed it we will point out. When He led us forth out of Egypt, that is out of our bodily passions, as we journeyed along the track barren of pleasure, we encamped in Marah, a spot having no water fit to drink, but water wholly bitter (Exod. xv. 23); for the delights that come by the way of eyes and ears and that of the appetite and sexual lusts bewitched.
Statistics: Posted by billd89 — Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:30 pm