What I mean by this is:
1. we have a history from the canonical gospels and Acts.
2. it is a supernatural history.
3. the orthodox tradition didn't allow any other models to survive (THERE WERE OTHERS i.e. Simon Magus, "Jewish" Christianity, Marcionism, Alexandrian Christianity etc)
4. Acts assumes the Holy Spirit breathed down into "apostles" and Christianity was established.
5. secular historians try and "clean up" the supernaturalism and make this narrative "historical" i.e. if you take all the swearwords out of a rap song (by bleeping them for instance) the song is somehow "acceptable."
My point is that this is ridiculous. The rap song is still vulgar even with all the overly offensive references bleeped. The same thing holds true for Acts. It still didn't happen.
Let's take the most obvious "alternative" history. Justin's two advents of Christ (closely linked to the rabbinic reports of those who advocate "two powers in heaven"). Whether people want to admit it or not, Justin's model doesn't seem to argue that Jesus was the Christ. The second advent of Christ is the fulfillment of the messianic prophecies. While the first advent (= Jesus) may be argued to be present in the Suffering Servant, Jewish people typically envisioned the second advent figure to align with what we and they call "messianic prophesies."
If Jesus was some sort of supernatural being who came to announce the coming of the second figure (i.e. closer to the Islamic, Manichaean etc understanding), Christianity really had a different origin. Clearly the one who came after Jesus is the historical figure. The gospel narrative represents the "preparation" for the messiah. While yes you literally have God or his angel coming to announce someone else - and therefore ALSO have an active God involved in the history of Christianity - we as historians would be able to explain this origin of Christianity historically i.e. the gospel isn't to be taken literally, it was a poetic announcement of something historical. No need to take Jesus or anything else too seriously.
1. we have a history from the canonical gospels and Acts.
2. it is a supernatural history.
3. the orthodox tradition didn't allow any other models to survive (THERE WERE OTHERS i.e. Simon Magus, "Jewish" Christianity, Marcionism, Alexandrian Christianity etc)
4. Acts assumes the Holy Spirit breathed down into "apostles" and Christianity was established.
5. secular historians try and "clean up" the supernaturalism and make this narrative "historical" i.e. if you take all the swearwords out of a rap song (by bleeping them for instance) the song is somehow "acceptable."
My point is that this is ridiculous. The rap song is still vulgar even with all the overly offensive references bleeped. The same thing holds true for Acts. It still didn't happen.
Let's take the most obvious "alternative" history. Justin's two advents of Christ (closely linked to the rabbinic reports of those who advocate "two powers in heaven"). Whether people want to admit it or not, Justin's model doesn't seem to argue that Jesus was the Christ. The second advent of Christ is the fulfillment of the messianic prophecies. While the first advent (= Jesus) may be argued to be present in the Suffering Servant, Jewish people typically envisioned the second advent figure to align with what we and they call "messianic prophesies."
If Jesus was some sort of supernatural being who came to announce the coming of the second figure (i.e. closer to the Islamic, Manichaean etc understanding), Christianity really had a different origin. Clearly the one who came after Jesus is the historical figure. The gospel narrative represents the "preparation" for the messiah. While yes you literally have God or his angel coming to announce someone else - and therefore ALSO have an active God involved in the history of Christianity - we as historians would be able to explain this origin of Christianity historically i.e. the gospel isn't to be taken literally, it was a poetic announcement of something historical. No need to take Jesus or anything else too seriously.
Statistics: Posted by Secret Alias — Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:55 am