Thanks to Ken Olson for this quote by Ernst Haenchen, Der Weg Jesu:
And thanks to Neil's uploading of Joseph Turmel on Revelation, from which I quote the following:
So there are no doubts: the "abomination of desolation" in Mark 13 is Hadrian.
It is clearly a Judaizing POV.
The Marcionite ("pauline") answer in 2 Thessalonicians is that the Anti-Christ is the enemy of Hadrian: Bar-Kokhba.
It is therefore curious and highly instructive the fact that all the Gospels, even *Ev, use the prophecy of Mark 13 where the "abomination" is Hadrian and not Bar-Kokhba.
I confess that this may be counted as evidence for the priority of Mark over *Ev...
...unless Mark 13 is the "pamphlet of a prophet" used by both *Ev and Mark.
But still the question would arise: why did Marcion quote the "pamphlet of a prophet" in *Ev? Was it found in the Justin's Memoirs of the Apostles, the only "gospel" preceding the first gospel (*Ev)?
A clue in such sense is that Justin knew Revelation.
Another example of the same thing is the way in which Rev. 13,17 ff.the name of the“ beast” is only given as a numerical value - to say something like “Emperor Nero(n)” It would have been all too risky.
However, if such a cipher is used, the reader's attention must be drawn to it so that he does not put the book down shaking his head, but searches for the secret meaning. In the Revelation of John we actually find such references three times. After the description of the healed “beast”, it says in 13,9: “If anyone has an ear, let him hear.” After the number of the “beast” is mentioned, it says in 13,18: “Wisdom is needed here. He who has understanding, calculate the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man. And his number is66618.” Finally, in chapter 17 we hear of the “beast” that it was, is not and will be. And then comes the reference in v.9: “Here is the mind (necessary) that has wisdom.” This at least allows us to assume that this is not an open, but a mysteriously concealed, “coded” speech. If we may judge by the analogy of these examples from Revelation, this form of speech could also have been chosen in Mark 13, because the statement in plain language is dangerous, i.e. directed against Rome.
However, if such a cipher is used, the reader's attention must be drawn to it so that he does not put the book down shaking his head, but searches for the secret meaning. In the Revelation of John we actually find such references three times. After the description of the healed “beast”, it says in 13,9: “If anyone has an ear, let him hear.” After the number of the “beast” is mentioned, it says in 13,18: “Wisdom is needed here. He who has understanding, calculate the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man. And his number is66618.” Finally, in chapter 17 we hear of the “beast” that it was, is not and will be. And then comes the reference in v.9: “Here is the mind (necessary) that has wisdom.” This at least allows us to assume that this is not an open, but a mysteriously concealed, “coded” speech. If we may judge by the analogy of these examples from Revelation, this form of speech could also have been chosen in Mark 13, because the statement in plain language is dangerous, i.e. directed against Rome.
And thanks to Neil's uploading of Joseph Turmel on Revelation, from which I quote the following:
The book of Revelation, minus certain supplements that have yet to be determined, is a Jewish book that originated in a Jewish uprising that was crushed by the Roman armies. The Jews revolted three times. The first revolt led to the war of Vespasian and Titus. The second led to Trajan's war. The third led to the war of Hadrian. Which of these wars was the occasion of the Apocalypse?
Let us first set aside the war of Trajan 115-117. It took place in Mesopotamia, Cyrenaica and Egypt, but it did not take place in Palestine. Now Revelation shows us (11:2) the holy city, i.e. Jerusalem, trampled underfoot by the nations for forty-two months. It could not have been written in 117. We have only two dates for it, 70 and 132. Which one should we choose? The legend of Nero's return has something to say here. The Apocalypse announces that Nero will return soon to destroy Rome, that he will return at the head of troops whose country is located beyond the Euphrates. The Apocalypse knows the legend of Nero's return in its second stage, that is, in the form that popular belief took from 88 onwards. The Apocalypse was written after 88, and since by that date we have only the war of Hadrian, we must conclude that the war which inspired the Apocalypse is that of Hadrian.
Let us first set aside the war of Trajan 115-117. It took place in Mesopotamia, Cyrenaica and Egypt, but it did not take place in Palestine. Now Revelation shows us (11:2) the holy city, i.e. Jerusalem, trampled underfoot by the nations for forty-two months. It could not have been written in 117. We have only two dates for it, 70 and 132. Which one should we choose? The legend of Nero's return has something to say here. The Apocalypse announces that Nero will return soon to destroy Rome, that he will return at the head of troops whose country is located beyond the Euphrates. The Apocalypse knows the legend of Nero's return in its second stage, that is, in the form that popular belief took from 88 onwards. The Apocalypse was written after 88, and since by that date we have only the war of Hadrian, we must conclude that the war which inspired the Apocalypse is that of Hadrian.
So there are no doubts: the "abomination of desolation" in Mark 13 is Hadrian.
It is clearly a Judaizing POV.
The Marcionite ("pauline") answer in 2 Thessalonicians is that the Anti-Christ is the enemy of Hadrian: Bar-Kokhba.
It is therefore curious and highly instructive the fact that all the Gospels, even *Ev, use the prophecy of Mark 13 where the "abomination" is Hadrian and not Bar-Kokhba.
I confess that this may be counted as evidence for the priority of Mark over *Ev...
...unless Mark 13 is the "pamphlet of a prophet" used by both *Ev and Mark.
But still the question would arise: why did Marcion quote the "pamphlet of a prophet" in *Ev? Was it found in the Justin's Memoirs of the Apostles, the only "gospel" preceding the first gospel (*Ev)?
A clue in such sense is that Justin knew Revelation.
Statistics: Posted by Giuseppe — Wed Jan 15, 2025 9:11 am