Obviously John 8:44 is a very controversial passage. There is much debate about how to interpret the beginning and ending of the verse, but what about the middle?
In Origen's commentary he connects the idea of the father of the Jews being a murder to the devil in the most tenuous of ways.
From Book 20:
To me this speaks to the difficultly of Origen's reading. He has a really go out on a limb to try to make sense of the claim that "he was a murderer from the beginning" in a way that applies to the devil.
On the other hand, when I read "he was a murder from the beginning" what immediately comes to mind is the Great Flood. It seems to me that the writer was saying that the Jews come from the "father of the devil" who was a "murder from the beginning", referring to the Flood. And not only the Flood, but of course many deaths can be attributed to the "God of Moses".
The accusation of murder against the God of the Jews seems straightforward, while an accusation of murder against the devil is tenuous.
44 You are of your father the devil [or: you are of the father of the devil], and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
In Origen's commentary he connects the idea of the father of the Jews being a murder to the devil in the most tenuous of ways.
From Book 20:
(224) But notice also the statement, "In Adam all die,
and in Christ all shall be made alive."221 In these words neither
is the neutral sense of death indicated by the words, "In
Adam all die," nor the morally indifferent sense of life,
which also is neither good nor bad in and of itself, by the
words, "In Christ all shall be made alive." By observing these
words you will perceive the life of man according to the
image.222 And when you have understood what his life is, you
will perceive in' what manner the murderer killed the living
man, and that he will correctly be called a murderer, not because
he killed some particular individual, but because he
killed the whole race insofar as "in Adam all die."
(225) Now, he committed this murder, having begun
even from the beginning, and because of this murder of
Adam, each one who has reflected on it and on his own
body and to whom it is related, will make the following remark
because he considers himself unfortunate since he
himself has died in Adam, ''Wretched man that I am, who
will deliver me from this body of death? "223 He considers also
in what way these words were spoken, ''You have brought me
down into_ the dust of death, "224 and, ''You have humbled us
in a place of affliction, "225 and "the body of our lowliness. "226
(226) Now, there is also something very mysterious, on
account of which he who is a murderer from the beginning
is ruler of this world (I mean, of course, of the earthly region),
where those men are whom he has killed. On the one
hand, then, the murderer has killed us, but, by the grace of
God, we have been buried with Christ and raised with him,
if indeed we have become conformed to his Resurrection
and walk in newness oflife.227
and in Christ all shall be made alive."221 In these words neither
is the neutral sense of death indicated by the words, "In
Adam all die," nor the morally indifferent sense of life,
which also is neither good nor bad in and of itself, by the
words, "In Christ all shall be made alive." By observing these
words you will perceive the life of man according to the
image.222 And when you have understood what his life is, you
will perceive in' what manner the murderer killed the living
man, and that he will correctly be called a murderer, not because
he killed some particular individual, but because he
killed the whole race insofar as "in Adam all die."
(225) Now, he committed this murder, having begun
even from the beginning, and because of this murder of
Adam, each one who has reflected on it and on his own
body and to whom it is related, will make the following remark
because he considers himself unfortunate since he
himself has died in Adam, ''Wretched man that I am, who
will deliver me from this body of death? "223 He considers also
in what way these words were spoken, ''You have brought me
down into_ the dust of death, "224 and, ''You have humbled us
in a place of affliction, "225 and "the body of our lowliness. "226
(226) Now, there is also something very mysterious, on
account of which he who is a murderer from the beginning
is ruler of this world (I mean, of course, of the earthly region),
where those men are whom he has killed. On the one
hand, then, the murderer has killed us, but, by the grace of
God, we have been buried with Christ and raised with him,
if indeed we have become conformed to his Resurrection
and walk in newness oflife.227
To me this speaks to the difficultly of Origen's reading. He has a really go out on a limb to try to make sense of the claim that "he was a murderer from the beginning" in a way that applies to the devil.
On the other hand, when I read "he was a murder from the beginning" what immediately comes to mind is the Great Flood. It seems to me that the writer was saying that the Jews come from the "father of the devil" who was a "murder from the beginning", referring to the Flood. And not only the Flood, but of course many deaths can be attributed to the "God of Moses".
The accusation of murder against the God of the Jews seems straightforward, while an accusation of murder against the devil is tenuous.
Statistics: Posted by rgprice — Mon Nov 18, 2024 3:23 am