What I admire in Robert Spencer is the justification of the his Muhammad Agnosticism on the mere fact that a text as the following (known as Doctrina Jacobi, vol 16, 209) leaves forever in doubt both Muhammad mythicists and Muhammad historicists about the identity of the unnamed "prophet armed with a sword":
Richard Carrier does never a thing of the kind, justly so, insofar the Testimonium Flavianum is a total interpolation (only liars and people who have not made the right homework may think otherwise), but wrongly, insofar we have really the Jesus's equivalent of the Doctrina Jacobi:
(Josephus, Antiquities 18.85-87)
Not a word by Richard Carrier about the possibility that the unnamed Samaritan false prophet was just the historical Jesus. When the dilemma is really insoluble.
My anger is directed also against the Jesus Agnostics who ignore a such possibility, since the only rational conclusion, in my view, once excluded that same possibility, is that Jesus never existed. Hence, how can I justify Agnostics who suspend the judgement about the historicity of Jesus on the only motive that the TF is totally interpolated and the possibility above is not even considered ? In my view, if Jesus was not the unnamed Samaritan prophet slain by Pilate, then Jesus never existed. Period. Stop.
But the Jesus Agnostics continue to suspend the judgement even under that premise, which is incredible.
When the candidatus [a member of the Roman imperial guard] was killed by the Saracens [Sarakenoi], I was at Caesarea and I set off by boat to Sykamina. People were saying “the candidatus has been killed”, and we Jews were overjoyed. And they were syaing that the prophet had appeared, coming with the Saracens, and that he was proclaiming the advent of the anointed one, the Christ who was to come. I, having arrived at Sykamina, stopped by a certain old man well-versed in scriptures, and I said to him: “What can you tell me about the prophet who has appeared with the Saracens?” He replied, groaning deeply: “He is false, for the prophets do not come armed with a sword. Truly they are works of anarchy being committed today and I fear that the first Christ to come, whom the Christians worship, was the one sent by God and we instead are preparing to receive the Antichrist. Indeed, Isaiah said that the Jews would retain a perverted and hardened heart until all the earth should be devastated. But you go, master Abraham, and find out about the prophet who has appeared”. So I, Abraham, inquired and heard from those who had met him that there was no truth to be found in the so-called prophet, only the shedding of men's blood. He says also that he has the keys of paradise, which is incredible.
Richard Carrier does never a thing of the kind, justly so, insofar the Testimonium Flavianum is a total interpolation (only liars and people who have not made the right homework may think otherwise), but wrongly, insofar we have really the Jesus's equivalent of the Doctrina Jacobi:
For a man who made light of mendacity and in all his designs catered to the mob, rallied them, bidding them go in a body with him to Mount Gerizim, which in their belief is the most sacred of mountains. He assured them that on their arrival he would show them the sacred vessels which were buried there, where Moses had deposited them. His hearers, viewing this tale as plausible, appeared in arms. They posted themselves in a certain village named Tirathana, and, as they planned to climb the mountain in a great multitude, they welcomed to their ranks the new arrivals who kept coming. But before they could ascend, Pilate blocked their projected route up the mountain with a detachment of cavalry and heavily armed infantry, who in an encounter with the first comers in the village slew some in a pitched battle and put the others to flight. Many prisoners were taken, of whom Pilate put to death the principal leaders and those who were most influential among the fugitives.
(Josephus, Antiquities 18.85-87)
Not a word by Richard Carrier about the possibility that the unnamed Samaritan false prophet was just the historical Jesus. When the dilemma is really insoluble.
My anger is directed also against the Jesus Agnostics who ignore a such possibility, since the only rational conclusion, in my view, once excluded that same possibility, is that Jesus never existed. Hence, how can I justify Agnostics who suspend the judgement about the historicity of Jesus on the only motive that the TF is totally interpolated and the possibility above is not even considered ? In my view, if Jesus was not the unnamed Samaritan prophet slain by Pilate, then Jesus never existed. Period. Stop.
But the Jesus Agnostics continue to suspend the judgement even under that premise, which is incredible.
Statistics: Posted by Giuseppe — Fri Nov 15, 2024 10:57 pm