Jewish Texts and History • Re: Two Powers in Heaven

And old man and a young man. The Father and the Son. Or so it seems.

...not messianic Judaism. Judaism Judaism.

• "Is the idea of a visible God absurd in Judaism? Daniel Boyarin on Dan Chapter 7". YouTube.
• "The two thrones, one like a Son of Man, and one God (Daniel Boyarin)". YouTube.

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"Daniel Boyarin, Scholar of Religion - Eshkolot | Jewish culture in edutainment format". web.archive.org. 7 July 2022.

"The Suffering Savior: An Ancient Jewish Expectation (w/ Dr. Daniel Boyarin)". YouTube. 30 September 2023. See full @URL

Boyarin says (again my emphasis):

Let me make clear I am not claiming that Jesus and his followers contributed nothing new to the story of a suffering and dying messiah.
…
I am claiming that even this innovation, if indeed they innovated, was entirely within the spirit and hermeneutical method of ancient Judaism, and not a scandalous departure from it.

Boyarin, The Jewish Gospels, p. 124

In other words, Boyarin is saying “the story of a suffering and dying messiah” predates Christianity...

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--Carrier (2 April 2024). "Simone's Series on How to Read the Talmud: Boyarin and the Dying Messiah Concept". Richard Carrier Blogs.

I haven't read the Boyarin book but this seems to be misinterpreting what Boyarin is saying. Boyarin seems to be saying that maybe a suffering and dying messiah predates Christianity maybe it was a Christian innovation. But even if it was a Christian innovation it was not a scandalous innovation in radical conflict with previous messianic ideas.

Andrew Criddle

Statistics: Posted by andrewcriddle — Tue Jul 23, 2024 7:00 am

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